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Breaking into Legal Ops: Why BD Skills Matter

The number one sales skill I’ve brought with me into my Legal Engineering Role…

The world of legal technology is appealing to a wide range of students and young people just starting their professional careers. I’ve spoken with students with almost every imaginable academic background and there’s a lot of interest in legal tech opportunities. However, a tricky obstacle to overcome is the lack of entry-level and graduate roles especially in SME and mid-market organisations.

This is something that I faced a few years ago when I graduated law school.

Looking around at what was available to me as a recent graduate with little-to-no professional experience it looked like I’d have to either apply for graduate schemes in much larger organisations than I ideally wanted to join at that stage in my career or find work as a paralegal through one of the various agency-type schemes and organisations which exist for such things.

Neither of these options appealed to me much, this was very much down to what I was looking for at the time rather than the merits of those paths. I’ve subsequently met dozens of amazing legal technologists and legal operations professionals who started on a graduate scheme or as a freelance or agency contractor of some description.

The route I took was a little different, however, looking back it afforded me the opportunity to develop a few key skills that serve me very well working in the legal technology and operations space. My first full time job out of law school was on the business development team of the company I’m still working for, Juro.

Juro is a legal technology company that specialises in contract automation. I’m now a Senior Legal Engineer at Juro. I work with the lawyers, legal operations, and occasionally revenue operations teams of our customers to help them get up and running with the Juro platform quickly and in a way that helps them meet the associated business objectives. 

What I discovered, a little to my own surprise, is that legal engineering and other operationally focused roles share common skills and competencies with business development.

The focus of this article will be the skill set associated with what they refer to in the business development and sales world as effective “discovery.” Generally speaking discovery is where the seller gathers information about the buyer’s pain, needs, decision-making process, stakeholders, etc.

When software and processes are involved discovery is also how the seller finds out how and with what tools things are currently done.

“From a sales perspective, this is important as it helps the team figure out whether they’re actually going to be able to help the prospective buyer solve their problem (qualification).”

It also helps them tailor any demonstrations and conversations to the specific situation, problem, and stakeholders of the prospective buyer.

Discovery is also a key skill for software implementation and change management, two core responsibilities of those in legal engineering and operations roles. Especially for legal engineers, being able to effectively learn what can be a completely novel business model with a range of stakeholders and very specific problems and existing processes. Over the past year alone I’ve worked with a huge range of organisations including; fast growing fintechs, West End musical theatre production companies, local government bodies, and global healthcare providers.

A lot has been and could, in addition, be written about what good discovery looks like. This is not a guide on good discovery. However, what I’d like to put to the legal operations community and those looking to get into this type of work is this: running discovery calls, even in a business development team context, for six months to a year is fantastic training for the many micro and macro skills that go into good change management and implementation discovery.

Whether you’re hiring for a legal engineering or legal operations role or you are looking to move into such a position yourself don’t discount business development and sales experience. Discovery is a crucial skill in any position that involves complex processes and change management across diverse stakeholders.

Henry Warner
Senior Legal Engineer
Juro

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Interview with Jon Gregson and Rhys Davison from Weightmans LLP

How easy is it for people to have a career in legal innovation these days? Do you think there are any entry barriers to being a legal technologist?

Jon:

I would say now it’s easier than ever. And in Rhys and myself you’ve probably got two very real examples of that. I’ve spent the first 15 years of my career as an employment lawyer. And whilst I’m still very much so, I have been able to work the transition into incorporating legal innovation/ops into my role. That is not say that the wearing of the two hats is easy, far from it, but the opportunity to be more than just an employment lawyer is very much there.


There is a lot made of non-traditional or squiggly career paths but really this is just about being able to embrace those areas where you want to develop and grow; its very much a platform for doing that and in areas that you might not immediately be able to do so within that more traditional lawyer context.


In terms of barriers I think confidence is the biggest issue. There is undoubtedly an element of the unknown in what we’re doing – particularly if you are transitioning from another role or its your first step into a law firm. I can understand how that might cause you to pause and check yourself. For however many years I may be qualified as a solicitor, in some ways its like going back to being newly qualified in some aspects of what I’m doing, albeit I do have perhaps a bit more experience in some other skills I can now fall back on.

Rhys:

Coming from a computer science background, I think it entirely depends upon how you limit yourself. My initial knowledge of the legal sector was novice at best, but I knew that the skills I’d picked up within software development could be a huge benefit to the role. I believe in dynamic roles such as ours, your ability to map your own unique skills to the environment becomes priceless, and keeping an open mind is never a bad thing.


In essence, I believe the ‘legal’ part of the legal tech sector isn’t necessarily set in stone. And there’s countless opportunities for individuals whose primary skills involve software, product, and solution development.

What skills have you developed in your legal ops role – any unexpected skills?

Jon:

Of course it has opened a whole new world technologically. I always had an interest in the tech but I guess that means things have got a bit more serious and so that has definitely stepped up. But my role isn’t really about just the tech. Its about making sure the right people are in the room and we are doing the right thing at the right time. For some of the tech that we’ve developed and sold, for example some of our SAAS products, there has been a much more pronounced sales-type role. That is markedly different from what is involved in pitching traditional legal services and so has involved a new skillset around sales.


In terms of unexpected, I’ve found a presence online, through LinkedIn. I’ve always had an account. But in the last 12 months I’ve found an audience and a place where I can develop and be part of an online community but also find my own voice and audience. That has been entirely different and unexpected.

Rhys:

I’ve mainly found that my skills within front end development have been drastically improved. I was always keen to design and make websites, so being able to further advance my skills whilst improving how our products look, has been really engaging for me.


However, my actual exploration of the various legal sectors has been more unexpected for me personally. Within the span of a year, I’ve learned so much about numerous topics with the help of some amazing legal professionals. So I’d say the ability to adapt and understand nuances within legal sphere has been most surprising for myself.

How do you approach challenges in your role, and can you give some examples of outcomes or lessons learned that might benefit others in the field?

Jon:

I think its very much about being willing to have a go and try something new. As I’ve mentioned it’s not always about the tech or knowing the ins and outs of something. There are clearly times when I definitely feel outside of the comfort zone or not really being all the way up to speed on exactly what it is that is being discussed. But that’s okay. I’m not always there to be the expert in the room or know the answer. Sometimes it might just be to drive an idea forward by asking questions or to offer an alternative perspective. Other times we will start on the path for one idea or problem but then find that it very quickly develops into something else and its about being able to pivot and adapt quickly as sometimes you need that natural development.


For example we have developed a disability tool that allows clients to work through the test for disability for themselves and make a determination on whether someone is likely to be disabled. The idea being that they can make the decision for themselves using an augmented decision-making tool, rather than having to revert to us for legal advice every time the issue arises. However, when discussing this tool with a client it became apparent that their need was actually a step further on and about the decision making involved in making reasonable adjustments for disabled employees. Therefore, we were able to take the original idea and develop and provide an alternative solution, not only for that client but also one that has a wider application.

Rhys:

I’d say the biggest hurdle in my role, as previously mentioned, has been the attempt to learn and understand the intricacies of the legal system, then to translate this new understanding into a functional product or solution. To anyone looking to expand into the field of legal-tech I’d recommend using your environment to your advantage, no matter your subject knowledge or experience. There’s always someone who’s an expert in a subject/technology, or someone who knows someone who’s an expert; so never being afraid to reach out and ask for guidance is invaluable in this role.

Can you share a recent example of a project or development in legal tech that has had a significant impact on how Weightmans handles employment law cases? How has this innovation influenced the firm’s approach or client outcomes?


Jon:

As I’ve mentioned we’ve developed a disability discrimination tool which we have successfully rolled out to clients. This ultimately will form part of a wider suite of employment tools. As part of that we have also developed a holiday pay calculator (as part of our holiday pay product offering) which helps calculate holiday pay liabilities for irregular hours workers. This followed a high profile decision which reaffirmed the law in that area. Doing so allowed us to again offer a tech-led, reliable solution to clients that they could, if they wished, utilise to help simplify holiday pay calculations and entitlements. It also meant that we could carry out calculations both at pace and also at volume for larger employers whilst not having to compromise on reliability or exceptional service or value.

Is generative AI an emerging trend in the legal tech industry that you find exciting and promising, or are you rather sceptical about it?


Jon:

I see it as something that could be exciting and useful, but only so far as it will augment and be a resource for what we already have. Every generation (of lawyers) thinks it’s the end of the world because of something new that is emerging or prophesised. Yet we’re still here. It might just be how we work or what we do will change. So it will be how we embrace that and how we utilise technologies such as generative AI to our advantages. I’m sure there will be some aspects of the role that will change, but that has always been the case. In my professional lifetime I’ve seen the move from paper files, to paper-lite to paperless. Nothing has fallen over and the world hasn’t ended. And I think most would agree we’re better for it. Ultimately for any fee earner, if its gives them back time in their day or makes what they do more efficient or easier it is going to be well received. It is likely to just be a question of how you take them along on that journey. So there may be a few lumps and bumps as we go on that journey as not everyone will be an early adopter or even the early majority but I do think in the whole it will be a good thing for us.

Rhys:

I think I wouldn’t be alone in saying the prospect of generative AI is both exciting and daunting at the same time. In the mist of potential of what AI can achieve, I believe it’s easy to get caught up in ‘what ifs’, and I have no doubt that similar ideas, worries, and imaginings have been drummed up throughout the history of technology. Inevitably, the success of an industry frequently depends on its ability to mould itself alongside groundbreaking tech such as generative AI, and the legal-tech sector is no different.
As a whole, it will be our job to make sure we have our finger on the pulse of such technologies, as our initial idea for what generative AI will be used for will inevitably prove to be incorrect.

What do you think the future of legal ops will hold?


Jon:

Of course it is an element of the unknown. There will be some good and some bad. Hopefully things won’t be developed for the sake of it. You tend to get a sense very early on if there is actually a problem to be solved and whether there is an opportunity to solve it or whether someone just wants to develop tech for tech’s sake. I’d also like to think there is an opportunity for legal ops to be part of that initial ground for lawyers. You absolutely need the diverse backgrounds of those in legal ops, like Rhys, but it would be really good if legal ops was just as fundamental a part of a trainee lawyers training and skill set as client care, advocacy and finance and business skills.


Rhys:

Speaking from a technological standpoint, I think the relationship between the legal sector and technology is becoming more and more intertwined. Innovations within technology will bring necessary legal concerns and challenges, whilst changes to the legal sector will call for innovative technologies to solve problems.

Jon Gregson

Rhys Davison

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Career Journey – Shreya Vajpei

1) Embracing Innovation in Law: My Current Role

Currently, I am part of the innovation team at Khaitan & Co, one of India’s largest and oldest law firms. In this role, I focus on enhancing the practice of law by not only improving client experience but also the day-to-day activities of our lawyers. This might sound a bit abstract, but essentially, we leverage process improvements and technology to refine legal practices. For instance, we’re revolutionizing workflow by automating it using enterprise service management for shared services. This innovation enables us to gather more accurate data, standardize services, and significantly reduce dependency on traditional communication methods like emails.

What excites me most about my role is the daily opportunity to deepen my understanding of the business side of law and its intersection with other fields. Through my work, I’ve developed a range of skills from problem identification and production management to legal design, UI/UX enhancement, and implementation of cutting-edge technology.

2) The Path to Innovation: Serendipity and Exploration

How did I end up here? If I were to summarize it in one word: serendipity. My career began with a graduation from law school, followed by practice at one of India’s leading law firms. This firm had a unique ‘rotation’ policy for new graduates, allowing us to experience different practice areas. This period was invaluable, offering insights into both transactional and dispute resolution practices.

However, my curiosity stretched beyond the legal domain. I was intrigued by the broader aspects of the profession, which led me to connect with a colleague’s spouse running a law firm management consultancy. This was my introduction to the world of practice management. I soon found myself in a mid-sized law firm’s practice development team, initially handling marketing and business development, and gradually moving into more strategic roles. This journey took me through various facets of law firm management, from service protocol improvements to strategic planning for new office openings and matter pricing strategies.

I leverage this diverse expertise in my current role driving innovation at Khaitan & Co. As part of the central Innovation team. The immense complexity and rapid evolution of both law and technology in this space keeps me constantly engaged.

3) Advice for Aspiring Innovators in Law

For those looking to follow a similar path, my first tip is: Be curious. Innovation thrives on viewing established practices with fresh perspectives. It’s also crucial to network and engage with others in this niche. Many challenges have been addressed before, and there’s no need to reinvent the wheel. Building a network of knowledgeable individuals can provide invaluable support and guidance.

Lastly, embrace patience and persistence. Change, especially in traditional fields like law, can be daunting and slow. It might take months or even years to witness the impact of your efforts. But rest assured, every step counts, and you are making a difference.

Shreya Vajpei

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Career story: Alexandra Shtromberg

Technology helps tax and legal teams to be more prepared for changes

I work as Tax and Legal Technologist at PwC Finland. Together with my colleagues from diverse backgrounds (for example, law, business, software engineering, data science), we work on solving complex challenges with the help of technology. 

As the legislative landscape and business environment get increasingly complex, technology can help to make faster and more informed decisions. Each project gives an opportunity to learn a lot about people, business processes and obviously new technologies. 

Endless learning possibilities is definitely something that I enjoy in my work. Sometimes it feels like I have never left school. Another inspiring thing is the spirit of collaboration. Working as a tax and legal technologist is about co-creation and intensive exchange of ideas and experience. It can sometimes be very overwhelming but very rewarding at the same time.

From a lawyer to a technologist

I started my journey in legal technology back as a business law student at the University of Helsinki, when Pilvi Alopaeus, founder of Legal Design Summit introduced me to the world of legal innovation. I got excited about being on a mission to make practicing law less boring and more efficient and creative for lawyers and other stakeholders. I started to learn programming (basics of Java) and data analytics (quite boringly, starting with Excel Pivot tables) six years ago. Then, by chance, our current Tax & Legal Technology team lead Jari Kärkkäinen found me on LinkedIn and invited to join a Tax and Legal Technology team at PwC Finland.

At PwC I work with both internal development projects and client assignments on the digital transformation of public and private sectors. I also act as a team lead for Tax and Legal Technology trainees, being responsible for trainee onboarding, daily supervision and digital upskilling. Every day is unique and unpredictable, and it is difficult to say where your work will take you in one or two years. 

Most important is to stay alert to new technological and legislative trends and work together to make the best use of them. It is also crucial to be able to anticipate a change and what it brings. For example, the growing importance of AI will inevitably involve lawyers in conversations around trustworthy and responsible AI. 

Legal technology is about building the bridge between business and technology

I like comparing my work to building bridges and introducing different teams to each other with a goal to create a new software product or to optimise a process. Understanding the needs of tax and legal experts and having a good grasp of technology (for example, data analytics solutions and document integration processes) helps me to communicate with both business and technology teams. 

How to become a legal technologist?

I think there is no one-size-fits-all approach. Each field of law has its unique challenges and trends. Each legal team is unique in the way it is structured and how it operates. 

You can be a lawyer at your current job and still be a legal technologist by becoming an agent of change in adopting new documentation, automation and analytics technologies, as well as working on digital upskilling of your colleagues. 

Another way is to become a legal technology consultant and help other lawyers to be more innovative. Most important is to keep your eyes open to opportunities and ideas, as well as constantly challenge your own (and others) way of thinking. This requires constant learning and looking for mentors and trusted advisors to improve your ideas. 

Even if you end up as a hired employee, being a legal technologist needs an entrepreneurial mindset. You need to be ready to challenge your own way of thinking and try new things, even if you do not know where it brings you.

Alexandra Shtromberg

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Career Story: Helder Santos

What do you do now and what do you enjoy about it?

I’m currently the Global Head of Legal Technology & Innovation at Bird & Bird, based in the firm’s Frankfurt office in Germany. My role involves driving the legal tech innovation agenda to ensure its successful implementation and I am responsible for developing a clear vision for how we continue to use legal technology within the firm and with clients in line with the firm’s global strategy. 

My new role at Bird & Bird allows me to stay abreast of technological developments and legal trends, to bridge gaps, increase efficiency and drive innovation in an industry that traditionally relies on rigorous processes.  Being a part of a tech-driven law firm, also allows me to work with a fantastic group of professionals and see how tech transforms traditional legal practices, making them more agile and responsive to the world’s demands. It is incredibly rewarding.

How did you get to where you are today?

My journey in legal tech has been varied. Before studying Multimedia Engineering at University, I started my career by working  in a law firm in Portugal, which provided me with a comprehensive understanding of various business sectors with a focus on technology.

Whilst working at the firm, I simultaneously pursued my studies, with a particular emphasis on leadership, digital transformation, entrepreneurship, governance, and innovation.

When I was invited to move to Germany, I joined a new team which were responsible for developing digital and IT projects globally. During my time there, I had the chance to participate in and lead several prominent business and technology transformations. As a result, both the team and the firm experienced significant growth during this period.

I then joined one of the Big 4, where I guided the implementation process of new Low-Code software solutions which had a huge impact on the future of app development in the legal market. Since October 2023, I have been working at international law firm Bird & Bird, helping our people and organisations being changed by the digital world.

Throughout my career, I have focused on growth, innovation, and helping others understand the potential of technology in the legal sector. I’m passionate about technology and digital business that facilitates people’s lives, from the new digital experiences and solutions to new ways to perform tasks as part of our day to day lives and our work.

As I continue this journey, I’m excited about a future where lawyers are empowered by technology, combining it with emotional intelligence and a future where the legal industry embraces change to better serve its clients. 

Legal technology is not a threat to the future of lawyers; instead, it can improve their current work in a big way. Automation of repetitive tasks, access to extensive data and insights, and improved client service are just a few of the advantages of legal technology. However, a lawyer’s human skills and judgment cannot be replaced by technology, and they will still need to apply creativity, ethics and empathy to their work.

What tips would you give to anyone interested in pursuing a similar career?

The road ahead is promising, and for those interested in pursuing a career in legal tech, it is important to gain as much knowledge of the legal industry as possible and develop key technical skills. 

Legal tech is a niche field that requires a vast understanding of the legal industry. Reading  legal publications, attending conferences, and networking with legal professionals is a good start. However, legal tech is also a highly technical field that requires proficiency in programming languages, data analysis, and software development. 

To succeed in legal tech, you need to have a passion for technology, a strong understanding of the legal industry, and a persistent attitude to achieving goals.

Helder Santos

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Puzzles and Passage: My Journey into a Career in Legal Technology

Uncharted Territories: A Pandemic-era Epiphany and Nurturing Curiosity


It feels like a long time ago when I found myself completing my law degree amidst the echoes of COVID-19 pandemic. The pandemic was not just a challenge; it was also revelation. Technology emerged as the unsung hero and proved to be the future. Intrigued by the prospect of merging law and technology into my career, I stumbled upon the world of legal technology.


Alongside my second year of university, I worked part-time and remotely at a start-up as a legal intern. At this point, I had no concept of legal technology and had to adopt different new digital practices. A key task during the internship was to research on DocuSign and report back on whether e-Signatures were legally binding. Looking back, it sounds bizarre that we have not adopted e-Signature just 4 years prior but this highlights how quickly technology is integrated into our daily lives.


A few months later, I landed an internship with the Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association (ALITA) which marked the beginning of my exploration into the intersection of the two areas I liked. This experience propelled me beyond buzzwords like ‘Artificial Intelligence’, ‘crypto’, and ‘metaverse’, into the dynamic world of using technology to increase efficiency in the legal industry.

Event Maestro: Where Ideas Take Flight


During a routine LinkedIn scroll on a normal afternoon a week before my final year, I came across the newly established FinTech and LegalTech society at university. After a lovely conversation with the co-founder, I assumed the mantle of the Head of LegalTech. This opportunity allowed me to transform ideas into reality and further my participation in Manchester’s legaltech sphere – events after events, we fostered dialogues, brought together legal minds and tech enthusiasts; and more importantly built valuable relationships that I still hold close today. We even managed to bag an in-person workshop amid the practice of virtual events! What started as a conversation became a community, a testament to the growing importance of legal technology.


I think Law Schools have come a long way to realise the once-hypothetical union of law and innovation, and I was fortunate enough to benefit from it. We were the first few cohorts to have the option to select the LegalTech module (named ‘Law, Money, Tech’) as part of our course. It felt like a full circle moment as I wrote my essay on the regulations of digital currency and the future of RegTech/FinTech – what were once buzzwords to me now became a tangible discourse, supported by academia rigor. The highlight? I even got to build a Bryter application as part of our assignment where different users will receive automated emails with bespoke content, showcasing the practical applications of legal technology.


The zenith of my journey into legaltech is my involvement in the Global Legal Hackathon hosted in Manchester where I assisted the participants with the venue logistics throughout the competition. The three-day hackathon has shown me the shared excitement and passion about reshaping the legal landscape. Discussions were vast and ideas were taking flight – different technologies and platforms were utilised for their ideas, which are no strangers to me today.

A Journey Unfolding: The life of a Legal Technologist


Fast forward to the present, I find myself in the exhilarating role of a legal technologist as each day welcomes new ideas. In this dynamic role, I wear multiple hats which keeps me on my toes, encouraging a constant state of learning, adaption and innovation. It feels mandatory to mention the unveiling of Generative AI – a technology that serves the very purpose of redefining how professionals approach their work; has once again pushed the boundaries of legaltech to a different level.


I value the discoveries and opportunities that this career has brought upon me. From identifying bottlenecks in legal processes to assessing AI solutions that re-invents decision-making, I position myself not as a bystander, but as an active participant in shaping the future of legal practice.


Reflecting on my journey, the access to legal technology education within academia and practical workshops at university not only expanded my knowledge but also equipped me with the skills necessary to navigate the ever-evolving landscape where law and technology intersect. They underscore the critical role educational institutions play in preparing the next generation for the transformative power of legal technology in the modern world.

Yee Xian Kong
Legal Technologist at Addleshaw Godddard

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Career Story: José María de la Jara 

What do you do now and what do you enjoy about it?

I am currently employed as a Senior Legal Ops Consultant at LOIS, based in Barcelona, Spain. My daily responsibilities include interviewing in-house lawyers and business partners, implementing legal technologies (especially CLM systems), and devising strategies to bridge the gap between the Legal department and the business. 

I find immense satisfaction in my current role because it empowers me to significantly impact the everyday lives of in-house lawyers, a sharp contrast to my past in international arbitration, where, despite successful outcomes, I often felt that clients just moved on. Even if we won. Those experiences left me without insight into the long-term effects of these victories, a gap that I am now able to fill in my current position. Now, in Legal Ops, my involvement in demonstrating Legal’s value to the business has been incredibly rewarding. I directly observe substantial improvements in the work life of in-house lawyers, ranging from increased departmental budgets and expanded roles within their organizations to securing influential positions alongside top executives like the CEO. This deeper engagement and visible advancement of clients in their careers is what makes my current role profoundly fulfilling, providing me with the unique opportunity to contribute meaningfully and witness the enduring effects of my efforts in the legal industry.

How did you get to where you are today?

My journey to this point began after a decade as outside counsel in the international arbitration market, where I realized that many in-house legal teams were “trapped” in their day-to-day activities, and their relationship with the business was tense. It was clear that while companies expected more from Legal, lawyers rarely had time to improve their own processes.


However, there were always a few ‘odd’ lawyers in every company, those uncomfortable with the status quo and desiring change, if only they had the time to implement it.
Eager to take on this challenge, I chose to leave my career path in international arbitration and returned to Peru to start my own legal operations consultancy firm. This decision was a major gamble, particularly as there were no legal ops consultancies in Latin America, and I was leaving a well-positioned role at a US firm during the pandemic.


Fortunately, the risk paid off. Initially focusing on legal departments in Peru, I never imagined expanding to Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico, and Paraguay, let alone attracting commercial and financial teams. In less than three years, I was involved in over 30 innovation projects.
This success led to another significant leap. To continue growing, I needed to branch out and immerse myself in the forefront of innovation. So, I took the necessary steps: I hopped on a plane, grabbed coffee with lots of people, and eventually joined LOIS, a leading legal operations consultancy in Barcelona.

Lessons learnt/ tips you’d pass to those pursuing a similar career

For those pursuing a career in Legal Operations, here are some key lessons and tips:

  • Reach out. Don’t hesitate to send that email or LinkedIn invite. This simple action enabled me to share a
  • pisco sour with Dan Ariely, interview Gerd Gigerenzer at Max Planck in Berlin, and also landed my current job offer.
  • Be a human sponge. Actively seek and selectively filter information. Remove your ego from the equation
    and embrace each challenge as an opportunity for growth.
  • Carve your own path. Avoid blindly following every trend. Find and nurture your unique voice and niche.
    Remember: uniqueness has a way of attracting luck.

José María de la Jara

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Career Story: Ratidzo Murwisi

What do you do now and what do you enjoy about it?

My name is Ratidzo (Rati) Murwisi and I’m a recovering practicing lawyer. In my current role as an Onboarding Directory Analyst at LegalTechnology Hub, I find immense satisfaction in the dynamic nature of my responsibilities. Over the past 1 year and 8 months, I have been fully immersed in the intricacies of updating and enhancing the Legaltech Hub directory, a task that involves incorporating new data and handling listing requests. The challenge lies in transforming vendor data to elevate listings from basic to enhanced status, requiring meticulous attention to detail.

One aspect of my role that brings me particular joy is the continuous maintenance and improvement of the directory. I take pride in ensuring that solutions are accurately tagged and promptly re-tagged in response to taxonomy changes. Beyond that, my involvement extends to enriching the Events directory by adding new events and consistently improving data within it.

An exciting dimension of my responsibilities involves scouring the internet for Legaltech jobs, a task that allows me to contribute to the Legaltech Jobs section by adding and refining job listings. This proactive engagement not only keeps me abreast of industry developments but also reinforces my commitment to maintaining the highest quality of data.

Working in a remote capacity has further amplified the importance of effective communication and self-motivation, and I find great fulfillment in the autonomy and responsibility bestowed upon me. Overall, my role as an Onboarding Directory Analyst provides a unique blend of data management, continuous improvement, and industry awareness, making every day a stimulating and rewarding experience.

How did you get to where you are today?

My journey to the role of an Onboarding Directory Analyst at LegalTechnology Hub is a testament to the diverse experiences and strategic decisions that have shaped my career. Armed with an LLB (Hons) in Corporate & Financial Law from the University of Wolverhampton, my professional path has been marked by a rich tapestry of work across various countries, including Zimbabwe, Botswana, the UK, and Egypt. Notably, my transition into the tech industry was a pivotal move that followed five years of bar exams in Zimbabwe, culminating from my extensive journey across multiple countries.

My foray into legal tech was sparked by an infographic shared by Sarah Ouis, illustrating the myriad paths a Law degree holder could take. This visual revelation prompted an in-depth exploration into the industry, with a specific focus on women professionals. As a staunch supporter and advocate for women, I engaged in extensive research and networking, particularly within the legal tech space.

The turning point in my career came after six months of dedicated effort. I actively participated in a Twitter space where women in Legal Tech were discussed, providing me with valuable insights into the industry. Subsequently, I delved into individual profiles, which led me to discover that one of these professionals was hiring for an entry-level position. I promptly submitted my CV, and after a thorough four-month process, I secured the position as an Onboarding Directory Analyst.

This journey underscores the power of strategic research, networking, and a proactive approach to career exploration, emphasizing the importance of staying informed and seizing opportunities when they arise.

What tips would you give to anyone interested in pursuing a similar career?

For those aspiring to venture into the dynamic realm of legal technology, I would emphasize three key tips based on my own experience in the field.

First and foremost, embark on a journey of thorough research. Legal tech encompasses diverse pathways, and it’s crucial to identify the route that aligns with your skills and background. While some roles may not necessitate additional education, others might. Tailor your approach based on a careful assessment of what complements your experience, enabling you to make informed decisions about your career trajectory.

Equally important is the power of networking. In legal tech, the most compelling opportunities often emerge through personal connections rather than traditional job advertisements. The legal tech community, while compact, is expansive in its impact. Building relationships with key figures across various pathways can significantly enhance your prospects. Look beyond conventional job boards and leverage platforms like LinkedIn, attend industry events, and participate in forums to establish meaningful connections.

Lastly, remain open to continuous learning. The legal tech landscape is dynamic, evolving, and expanding rapidly. To thrive in this environment, one must be adaptable and willing to embrace new approaches and perspectives. The ability to quickly grasp and utilize emerging tools in the market can set you apart in an industry that values innovation and forward-thinking.

In essence, a combination of targeted research, strategic networking, and a commitment to ongoing learning can pave the way for a successful and fulfilling career in legal technology.

Ratidzo Murwisi

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Career Story: Shaznee Seraj Ahmad

“I am a legal technologist”
“You are a what?”

Legal Technologists thrive on change, and it is one of the most exciting fields in the legal industry today. My journey into legal technology began when I undertook a Master’s degree, LLM in Legal Practice with BPP University in Leeds. BPP offered an additional certification called “the Innovation, Design and Technology” that ran throughout the summer. After attending countless webinars, Legal Hackathons and seeing ‘Legal Tech’ plastered all over the news, I thought it was the right time to dip my toes into the word of Legal Tech. Three months after sitting for my Private Acquisition paper, I found myself learning about a collaboration tool and immediately fell in love with the idea of becoming a catalyst of change.

As with many law students, I too have embarked on the journey to become a commercial solicitor (Note 1: the decision was not influenced by Harvey Specter in any way, shape or form!) but my career took a turn after being offered the position of Legal Technologist with Norton Rose Fulbright in Newcastle.

As a law student, I have always been comfortable with the idea of conducting legal research, understanding black letter laws, and translating the knowledge I learned in the 400-seater lecture theatre to a two-page scenario-based question but this time, it was different. I found myself asking more questions than ever before to understand Legal Tech as an industry.

Lawyers are essentially our clients. Their problems are often our starting point. It is crucial to constantly check in with key stakeholders to understand how we can help them provide legal services in a more efficient and agile way.

Can we digitalise checklists?

There must be a way to automate the review of a loan agreement.

Due diligence is such a pain!

These are the kinds of questions that trigger our problem-solving skills. From document automation, to process improvement, each question and problem transforms into a solution.

I have been fortunate enough to work with inspiring lawyers and business service professionals to develop ground-breaking solutions in the legal transformation space. It is an extremely exciting field, and every day is a new day which is exactly why I am passionate about the legal tech industry and excited to be a part of a larger change.

Be curious. Ask questions. Research. Talk to all the stakeholders, but it does not necessarily need to be in that order. Do explore and have fun along the way! It is a welcoming industry with brilliant and knowledgeable people to consult. There are plenty of Legal Tech networking events and conferences out there for you to attend if you are interested to learn more about the industry. What better way to learn about the industry than to have a direct conversation with the people who run the show!

Technology might be a magic want to many, but you need to know the right spell. Technology is often the first thing that comes to mind whenever “innovation ” is mentioned but is not limited to this. Sometimes it is not about reinventing the wheel or fixating on a million-dollar tech you saw on a Youtube Ad after watching a short demo; but a simple modification might just be the ideal solution.

Being prepared to collaborate is a vital skill to master, not just in legal services, but also applicable in Legal Tech. As it is a fast-growing industry, most of the time a technologist is required to collaborate with multiple teams. This could be with internal and external stakeholders, ranging from the data and design team, lawyers specialising in practice areas as well as existing and future Vendors. Keeping an open mind with a strong desire to explore new ways of working and thinking helps.

Asking questions takes you places. Always remember, there is no such thing as a silly question. It is a fast-growing industry where the only thing that is guaranteed is change. The ‘silly’ question might lead you to the right solution. Ask away. Since there is no such thing as a “textbook” approach to the implementation of legal tech, I relied on a series of questions to navigate my way through my role as a Legal Technologist and is forecasted to continue in doing so!

Shaznee Seraj Ahmed

Legal Technologist

Norton Rose Fulbright LLP

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Setting Trends for Legal Technology Modules at University

Do you think academia should have a role in legal innovation and if so, how and by whom should such programmes be taught?

Jonathan Patterson:

Yes definitely. It is important to capture the imagination, interest and involvement of people in the basics of legal innovation as early as possible, so academia presents one of the best opportunities to engage talent for the future at an early stage.

Specialist courses like the Law, Money and Technology programme at the University of Manchester are a good way to develop the required knowledge and skills especially when they are delivered as a collaboration between academics and industry specialists. A mix of the latest research findings and teaching best practice when combined with opportunities for real world application provide a strong foundation for students to understand and apply the skills required for legal innovation.

Claire McGourlay:

100%, I agree with JP, we have experts who are researching in this area and research led teaching is so important. We teach our students about legal innovation, co-create, and collaborate with them. This is one of the reasons we set up the Manchester Legal Technology Initiative so we could work with industrial partners on research and teaching development.

How does your course prepare and shape the next generation of law graduates? Why should students take part?

The course provides them with three main capabilities.

  • Access to the latest academic research and exposure to top quality teaching from recognised academic and industry professionals.
  • Insights into the cross section of law, commerce and technology covering a range of topics that go beyond the traditional law curriculum.
  • Developing transferrable skills and experiences that will help to differentiate themselves from other candidates when they enter the workforce.

Students should take part because it will help them understand the wider context of how the industry of law works, help prepare them to enter the workforce regardless of the route they choose and provide them with opportunities to meet, network and learn from both academic experts and industry specialists. Ultimately it enables them to understand and ready themselves for the change and challenge a career in the law requires.

From staffing to the curriculum and demand, what were some key challenges in creating the module and how did you strategise to overcome them?

We had a range of challenges

  • Identifying the right mix of relevant and applicable subjects (given the vast number of options) and aligning that with the specialist teaching expertise required to deliver it
  • Convincing industry expertise and academics to collaborate
  • Making the most of different teaching techniques to ensure the course wasn’t just traditional classroom learning
  • Providing opportunities for students to apply knowledge and gain exposure to how things work in practice as well as understanding the theoretical underpinning
  • Showing students how these new types of knowledge and skills are going to help them as they explore career options and showing that the demand from employers is changing.

However we put in place strategies to overcome the challenges:

  • Developing the curriculum with a diverse mix of expertise – academic and industry- this took us many years to develop and recruit the right staff to teach and deliver a module that has longevity and that can be sustained.
  • Engaging with students and employers to understand the requirements, interests and needs that the course should focus on and deliver
  • Creating the ability to adapt and refine the curriculum content iteratively rather than sticking to one static formula for multiple years

What should be the next steps in legal education?

Claire:

We need to build on what we have already achieved and continue to work with Law Firms and Innovation teams to ensure that our students have the skills required of them in this malleable, changing, workplace. The industry is not standing still, nor should we. I love building things, creating, learning, making sure we are developing student skills in the right way, skills that mean something in the workplace, this also means learning with students, co creating, listening, and producing assessments that test those skills and that are inclusive.

What key insights and lessons should other law schools take from the University of Manchester’s Law Money and Technology module?

Many students want to take the module and we could fill the spaces 10 times over. We originally limited the space due to the way the course was designed, and we have now changed that to allow more students to take the module. We also have 6 members of staff contributing the module within their area of expertise. This shows there is appetite and demand for new programmes that align with the change we are seeing in the legal industry at all levels. The way we develop knowledge, skills and expertise that help students understand how to differentiate themselves benefits them, the university and potential employers is also key to our collaborative approach that makes the most of both academic and industry expertise and this works well if you can harness it. Also, don’t be afraid to listen to feedback and develop and refine the curriculum – it won’t be perfect the first time out but that is better than taking too long to develop something perfect. It is as much about enabling students to develop transferable knowledge and skills and a mindset of reflection and curiosity as it is teaching them about a particular aspect of law or how a specific technology works. This really is important, and it shouldn’t just be focussed on classroom learning but also opportunities for application and exposure to a wide range of stimulus.

Jonathan Patterson and Claire McGourlay